Finding a New Language

[10:50] Melody: Is it just that we’re not “joiners?
[10:50] indyness: that could be part of it – is it a creative class thing?
[10:51] Melody: maybe
[10:51] indyness: we’re going to make our own “church” if that’s what we want
[10:51] indyness: maybe that’s what turns us off about it
[10:51] indyness: ask pam (our therapist)
[10:51] Melody: Good idea.
[10:52] Melody: It just doesn’t seem like a questioning atmosphere.


[10:52] indyness: that’s it!
[10:52] indyness: you’re right, and that’s why we’re uncomfortable
[10:52] indyness: although the very nature of the campaign, some would say, is to question
[10:53] indyness: what do you think about debate for the sake of debate?
[10:53] Melody: I think it’s healthy.
[10:53] Melody: It makes people think.
[10:53] indyness: that’s what they’re saying – this is about starting a debate
[10:53] indyness: it gets people thinking, and that’s what matters
[10:54] Melody: but why does it seem like it’s not OK to question them?
[10:54] Melody: It’s not OK for gay people to disagree with them.
[10:54] Melody: Look at the response we’re getting.
[10:54] indyness: it’s never OK for gays to disagree with the gay agenda
[10:54] Melody: It’s the whole– if you’re going to be on our side, you have to agree with us thing.
[10:54] indyness: yes – you’re either with us or against us
[10:54] Melody: I hate it when you say “gay agenda.”
[10:54] indyness: why?
[10:54] indyness: don’t you think there’s a gay agenda?
[10:54] Melody: b/c it makes it sound like something we have to be a part of or gainst
[10:54] Melody: or against I mean
[10:55] Melody: I think some gay people have an agenda that differs with mine
[10:55] Melody: It’s like saying The Christian Agenda– it leaves out all this room for dissent w/in the Christian community.
[10:55] indyness: i think there’s a national gay agenda
[10:55] Melody: and that gives it power.
[10:55] indyness: yes! there is a christian agenda like there is a gay agenda
[10:56] indyness: or do you think there’s no christian agenda?
[10:56] Melody: I think there’s an Evangelical Christian agenda
[10:56] indyness: and there’s an Evangelical gay agenda –
[10:56] Melody: but when you say Christian agenda, it leaves out all of these people who are just practicing their faith quietly
[10:57] Melody: and when you say Gay Agenda, it leaves out people like us who are mostly just trying to live our lives
[10:57] indyness: don’t you think we are left out of it
[10:57] indyness: we’re not out enough; we don’t go to the right church, go to the right demonstrations
[10:57] indyness: we’re not suing city hall
[10:57] Melody: Yes, and I think using those kinds of terms are keeping us shut out
[10:58] indyness: so you think there’s a postmodern gay agenda that isn’t really an agenda at all
[10:58] Melody: I would prefer to stop calling it an agenda
[10:58] Melody: The things we want are basic human rights
[10:58] indyness: OK, i’ll have to think about that one
[10:58] Melody: the right to live and love as we please, the right to work without fear of firing or physical harm
[10:59] indyness: the post-modern creative class approach to human rights
[10:59] indyness: it’s not about gayness
[10:59] indyness: is that right?
[10:59] Melody: Right
[10:59] Melody: It’s about human-ness
[10:59] Melody: humanity
[10:59] indyness: it’s not about labels. it’s about humanity
[10:59] Melody: basic kindnesses
[10:59] indyness: OK – very spiritual of you, earth goddess
[10:59] Melody: ha ha
[11:00] indyness: ok i’m on board with that
[11:00] Melody: Maybe we should just post the IM conversation
[11:00] indyness: so is it a rejection of gay politics?
[11:00] Melody: Maybe
[11:00] Melody: but I wouldn’t be willing to reject female politics
[11:00] indyness: i agree
[11:01] indyness: i’ll have to explore this some more
[11:02] Melody: more and more lately I’m associating all of the bad things in the world– in politics, in my work with men– with male energy
[11:02] Melody: and the good things with female energy
[11:02] Melody: and I think it’s kind of the same.
[11:02] Melody: This all feels so male.
[11:03] indyness: the world is masculinized
[11:03] indyness: and you’re saying that it needs to be more feminized
[11:04] indyness: not gay politics – that’s too limiting
[11:04] indyness: female politics encompasses those issues
[11:04] Melody: It should be about building community, seeking connections.
[11:04] Melody: not about right and wrong
[11:04] indyness: hmmm – feminism in a post-modern society
[11:05] indyness: i like it.
[11:05] indyness: with some asian clothes thrown in for good measure
[11:05] Melody: ha ha
[11:05] indyness: you’re talking about changing our mental models
[11:05] Melody: In Memoirs of a Geisha, the main character talks about how her spirit is comprised mostly of water– so her approach to obstacles is to flow around them instead of to try to knock them down.
[11:06] Melody: Yes, that’s what I’m talking about.
[11:06] Melody: That’s why I don’t think it makes any sense to use “the oppressor’s language” to fight him.
[11:06] Melody: We should be creating a new language.
[11:06] indyness: ha!
[11:06] indyness: i agree – you’re so smrt
[11:06] Melody: S-M-R-T
[11:07] indyness: b/c the language of evangelical christians is masculine
[11:07] Melody: Right.
[11:07] indyness: and we need a new feminine language
[11:07] Melody: It’s all about right and wrong
[11:07] indyness: and that’s why it feels so constraining
[11:07] Melody: and the person who is offended by what we’ve said is male.
[11:07] Melody: and speaks the same language
[11:07] Melody: He’s political.
[11:07] Melody: He tries to fight fire with fire instead of water.
[11:07] indyness: right – it’s about advocacy, not inquiry
[11:08] Melody: We’ve given these ultra-religious folks too much merit by arguing with them for too long.
[11:08] indyness: we’re not trying to understand each other. each party is advocating his position
[11:08] Melody: They just keep getting more powerful, and we leave ourselves all worn out and unable to work on anything constructive.
[11:09] indyness: our new language
[11:09] Melody: Right.
[11:09] Melody: I think it’s time to get to work on what’s important.
[11:09] Melody: but we need to figure out what that is and how to get started.
[11:10] Melody: I keep seeing this stuff and thinking– I’d rather work on how we can make women more successful
[11:10] Melody: I don’t care about any of this shit.
[11:10] indyness: i love you
[11:10] Melody: I love you, too.

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